This is completly off the subject of motherhood. I don't want to start another debate (LOL! ), just wanted to give you all some info. I recieved an e-mail this morning about the church that Barack Obama is a member of. It is the Trinity United Church of Christ, a christian church. I searched on CNN.com and found where he is indeed a member of this church. I found it odd that noone has questioned him about this in the media (when some other politicians have been harrassed nonstop about their religion), as the beleifs of his church could be quite alarming to some members of this country. Please check out the website ,www.tucc.org/about/htm, and see for yourself. They say nothing of supporting America, just of supporting Africa, and talk of remaining "true to the native land". I find it troubling that a man running for president of THIS country belongs to a church that says these sort of things, and yet he has not had to answer any questions about his beliefs?

April-mommy to Ronald-1 year old

Also, please read their black value system, especially #8 and #12:www.tucc.org/black_value_system.html. Some of these values make is seem like they believe they are still slaves, and also some of the values make it seem as if they are trying to re-segregate themselves. It seems as if the rest of the country's races are not worth investing in, only the black people. I though it was equality for all, at least that is how I feel. I may be misunderstanding, but that is how it sounds to me. I am confused as to why any black person would want to do any of these things. Does anyone have a better insight than me?

April-mommy to Ronald-1 year old

I read a story on this subject in either Newsweek or Time (can't remember which) about a month ago.
The article makes the point that many of his supporters (and I think I may be one) believe he'll unite America (and black and white people, specifically), but many things in his lifestyle (like his church, for example) suggest he may actually do the opposite.
It said that many white people like him because he seems so moderate and they (subconsciously?) hope he'll ease their guilt about slavery, inequality, etc. But black voters want someone who will speak up for them and force white Americans to face these issues and make changes.
The two things don't exactly go together, and the story said his membership in this church may show that he's more inclined "to scold Americans for past and current injustices" than many voters think.
I wish I could find that story, because it's interesting.
But I'm not sure his religious beliefs will change my vote, because none of the candidates believe what I believe, and I really don't think I'll ever see a presidential hopeful who does - which wouldn't matter a bit if I thought they could keep their religious beliefs separate from their potential duties as president.
And I may be wrong, but don't other religions also put a lot of focus on countries other than America?
Jewish people care alot about Isreal, don't they (and I may be showing my ignorance here, because I really don't know a thing about Judaism)? That doesn't make them any less American or any less interested in making America a better place.

I thought religion was about your soul and about a love for humanity, in general. I didn't know it had much to do with love or support for a specific country, other than to acknowledge the historical significance of certain places ...
Does someone's church have to specifically pledge allegiance to America in order for that person to be a good American?

Although I do not think a cadidate's religion should be an issue, I just spent some time looking at the website of the church of which Obama is apparently a member. Nowhere could I find anything that suggested only African Americans can be members. In fact, in the "Mission" section, it states the following:
W.E.B. DuBois indicated that the problem in the 20th century was going to be the problem of the color line. He was absolutely correct. Our job as servants of God is to address that problem and eradicate it in the name of Him who came for the whole world by calling all men, women, boys and girls to Christ.
Further, I read the Black Value System that you found so troubling and don't think it is problematic over all. Life for an African American in this country is radically different from that of an average white person, even the so-called middle class African Americans.
For example, almost 59% of the prison population in Alabama is African American, while only 26% of population in our state is black. Regardless of the reasons for that (and that can be debated forever), there are clearly a disproportionate number of African Americans incarcerated.
Even locally, the recent decision of the city school board to implement zoning changes has widened the racial gap and increased segregation in schools that had become more integrated. None of us should fool ourselves that the Black American experience and the White American experience are the same, and the idea that a church would seek to unite people of color to strengthen African American families and fight against deeply entrenched prejudices and institutional injustices should not scare anyone. It is a natural and necessary result of the culture of our nation. Unless a candidate believes exactly as I do (and even within religions there is disagreement on various issues and positions), they will all have religious and personal beliefs different from mine. Religion should not be an issue, and perhaps the answer to why Obama hasn't been questioned much about his religion is that he hasn't brought it up. The candidates who are grilled about their religion often open that door themselves by making it a campaign platform.

That sounds exactly right to me, Lawmommy!!

Somewhat along these lines, I was impressed with commentary I heard Ben Stein deliver on the CBS Sunday Morning Show last weekend. It is an important reminder that if we want change in our lives, we need to figure it out for ourselves, and not depend on politicians with seemingly similar beliefs to provide us personal resolve.

Here is the link...

http://www.benstein.com/01062008change.html

I completly agree Angie. Whether we are middle class or poor or rich, whether we end up in jail or in the pulpit, it is up to every individual, white or black, to make their own decisions in their own life (and to take responsibility for those decisions, be them good or poor ones). You have to work hard in this life no matter your color if you hope to have a good life. I don't agree completly with any candidate, but like bits and pieces of all of them. I can only wish we will ever have someone that takes the right side on every issue. Even then, they can only do so much for me. I have to do the rest myself.

April-mommy to Ronald-1 year old

Angie, that is so true. I agree as well. They make all these grand promises and it seems unrealistic. However, I do enjoy "the show" when we're in an election year. I like to watch the debates and hear what the political pundits have to say. I am still undecided. So thanks for bringing up the Obama stuff. I'm interested in learning more about him.

I have just one thing to add.

Replace every word black in their value system with the word white. If that would offend you if you were black, or even offend you as a white person (which it would me), then it shouldn't be and can't be ok as it is now. If this country wishes to move forward, we have to do away with double standards when it comes to race, and we all have to take responsibility for ourselves.

How rich or poor, and whether you wind up in jail or the CEO of a Fortune 500 company in life depends on your decisions and how hard you work to get where you want to be, not by the color of your skin.

Those of us, like me, who have worked incredibly hard to get what little we have, understand this and know what I am talking about, but those who have never had to work really hard (and those who have never been very poor), well, they will think I am crazy, because they have never been there. I have seen the day to day decisions that people are forced to make when faced with tough situations. I can tell you that life is hard no matter your color. I have seen it on both sides. I have been there. It is only by the grace of God that I am who I am, and not who I could have become.

All I am trying to say is that we cannot, as a country, allow anyone to be racist, be them black or white. We can't allow one race to say they are better than the other, or we will just keep repeating history over and over again.

I would hesitate to designate the members of a church that promotes the advancement of a long-oppressed people as racist. Regardless of the struggles that each of us goes through, you cannot compare apples to oranges, and until you have experienced the phenomenon of trying to find a job when you have a "black name" or have experienced racial profiling by law enforcement, etc., you can't fully understand the differences. We can say all day that it's time to move on and get over the past, but the reality is that all races are still not treated equally and that minorities face a much steeper hill in their struggle to get ahead in life.

I have been poor (I grew up in a secondhand trailer & my family lived on macaroni & cheese while my mother put herself through nursing school; on top of that, I was a very young mother & put MYSELF through college so I could give my children a better life ...) and my husband and I work very hard to pay our bills, but I have no problem with this church or what it preaches.
All I can say is that at least we were given every opportunity to work hard and make decent lives for ourselves. It can be much harder - and sometimes next to impossible - for minorities to do so, because there's still a lot of discrimination and REAL racism in this world.

First of all, I have been a minority. In my elementary and junior high school classes, there were only three to five white children, and twenty to twenty five black children. I did not know until high school that there were more white than black people in this country. I grew up feeling like a minority, so I know how most blacks feel. I could have gone along with some of them. I could have done presciption drugs like my sister and mother(blacks are not the only ones who have issues like drugs). But I chose not to. We have to stop making excuses for the choices others make(he is black, his mother treated him badly, etc...). We are all solely responsible for the choices we make.

Everyone keeps calling everything racial profiling, but the simple fact is that more blacks in Alabama (and most of America) commit crimes more than whites. It is their choice whether or not to commit those crimes. And they rightfully should be punished for them. Everyone has a choice! Free Will!

We, as a country, must stop using double standards if we ever wish to end racism. If anyone wishes to be treated as an equal, then they must present themselves as an equal, not in a group that only supports their race and home country. There will always be extremists and true racists in every community, but there are extremists in everything. If you seperate yourself into to a group of one color or another, then you have set yourself up to be treated differently and sometimes treated with outrage and abhorance (anyone remember the KKK, they started out as a good thing). There are times where racism is very real, and to those who have been treated unfairly because of their race(take the Muslims in this country, they get treated far worse than the black community after 9/11), I truly am sorry that they have had those experiences with dispicable people.

I am not alone in how I view this. Take Bill Cosby. He has some very enlightening things to say to the black community. Listen to him the next time you have a chance. Then you will understand what I am trying to say.

Life is hard no matter your color. When are we all going to stop making excuses for why and start trying to help make it better for us all?

I must say ladies, I have greatly enjoyed the debate and intelligent converstaion. I don't get very much of it in my life with a one year old that consumes my time.

My only wish would be that others would get involved and voice their opinions as well.

So, Thank you. It makes my day a little better when I get to talk to all of you.

I am going to post a couple of links to ABC stories and wanted to know whether you ladies had heard or read anything about this. I find it interesting that the media waited until he was the frontrunner on the Dem side to bring this up. What do you ladies think? I think...well, we all know what I think so I will just shutup...LOL !

abcnews.go.com/blotter/story?id=4443788&page=1

abcnews.go.com/blotter/story?id=4452990&page=1

Do you believe him when he says he disagrees with his pastor that much, but still remained a member for over 20 years?