Thank you. I am trying.

Yes, I agree. Ronaldsmom, it's wonderful how you are doing all you can to ensure your niece is well cared for. She's lucky to have such a caring aunt. Good luck! I pray it all works out for her.

And...it's a bit strange how we have the polygamist sect and the story of Ronaldsmom's niece all intertwined on here...but here's an update on those kids in the sect for those who are interested..

http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/article/20080424/APA/804240536

I didn't realize until yesterday that they were housing those kids and a bunch of the women in a sports arena. Apparenlty now, though, all the kids are in foster care. And how about they believe that 25 of the "women" with children are actually minors themselves.
http://www.cnn.com/2008/CRIME/04/25/polygamy/index.html?iref=mpstoryview

This is a very complex issue or issues. I have been very moved by the plight of these women and children. I can't imagine how they must feel. I have no doubt that it is a tangled web of lies. These mothers are between a rock and a hard place. If they reveal unfavorable things about the Ranch then they risk punishment from the Ranch and from the State. One being exiled from the FLDS (which to them equals damnation)and the other is loosing their children. So I am sure they are only willing to say positive things so as not to risk thier place in heaven and the custody of their children.

In reading the media reports it seems that the language choosen is somewhat inflamatory. Perhaps the media is fanning the flames of America's outrage just a bit? It appears to me that while these people are in fact different and lead a lifestyle most of us cannot fathom that the majority are decent people and are being judged for the villainy of the minority.

In one of the reports it was revealed that prior to the groups arrival in Texas, that Texas law allowed for the marriage of a 14 year old with parental consent. Only at some point after the arrival of the FLDS did Texas deem to change this law. So if they now find a 24 year old with a 10 year old child it is possible that no laws were broken - although morally reprehensible.

Please don't take my comments to mean that I support or condone polygamy or underage marriage. Certainly I do not. I just don't want to condemn what I don't know or understand.

Well, I have to say that my opinion has changed a bit since the story first broke. I was glad that the state had gone in on behalf of the children to protect them from being abused. Upon reading more about it and watching children be put in foster care, I have had a change of mind.

Like multilieb, I DO NOT condone or support the lifestyle of the FLDS. However, I can't believe that ALL of the children were in sufficient eminent danger to take them from their mothers. I still think marrying a 14yr is sick but apparently the state of Texas didn't think it was bad enough to outlaw it until AFTER they were trying to come down on the FLDS.

Is it true that the FLDS had something to do with Texas changing the minimum age to marry? That would surprise me, but I haven't researched it. There has been a trend to increase that age; it was only a few years ago that Alabama upped the age from 14 to 16 with parental consent. The age of majority in Ala. is 19, but a person can marry (and file for divorce, conversely) without parental consent at age 18.
All of that said, I only bring it up because I don't think the Texas legislature's decision to raise the age is so significant. I do agree with you both, though, that it is a very complex issue and is certainly not black and white. Freedom of to practice one's religion is a sacred constitutional right in our country, as it should be. However, children being coerced into marriage (and accordingly, sexual relationships) should not be tolerated under any circumstances in a civilzed society, in my opinion. While I don't doubt what muttilieb says about the majority of the cult members being decent people with good intentions for their children, that doesn't cahnge the fact that even the children not subjected to molestation (which is what it is when they are having sex underage with the fathers/men of the sect) are living in a culture that both fosters child abuse and protects the abusers through the isolation of the sect. It's a very difficult situation, and as I've said before, I believe only time will tell if the state went about trying to protect those children in the right way. The idea of separating mothers and their children is disturbing no matter what, and it may very well turn out that some or many of the mothers are victims themselves.

It is a VERY sticky situation. The thing that bugs me most is that ALL the children were separated from their mothers. Although some effort has been made to reunite some, I still wonder if a clean sweep was the right way to handle it. On the flip side, how do you investigate what's going on if you don't wrangle everyone up and question them separately. And, yes, the mothers are most likely victims themselves. Maybe they should have just taken all the men out of the compound while they investigated??? I don't know. My research finds that the law did target the FLDS. Link But, on the other hand, the FLDS targeted Texas because of their age of consent law... It's a chicken and egg scenario.

Bottom line, I just think of all the 2-5 year olds that have no idea why they don't have mommy around.

FunnyMummy, the link wouldn't work for me for some reason, so I can't read that article. I've been looking, and the only stuff I can find linking the law change to the arrival of the FLDS comes from anti-government blogs and other such websites.

Apparently I'm having an Adobe Acrobat reader problem...new computer.

OK, I found this, which might be the same thing but not in PDF, which I am apparently having trouble opening tonight.
http://www.house.state.tx.us/news/release.php?id=1210
And here is a NYTimes article that mentions the bill.
So all that to conclude that yes, the FLDS was at least part of the impetus to raise the legal age for marriage! But even if it was part of the reason, or the whole reason, I doubt there is anyone here who thinks it was a bad move, right? To raise the age to 16?
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/04/12/us/12raid.html?&pagewanted=print

I think you won't find anyone here that has a problem with raising the age to 16. In my opinion 16 is still too young. But that is not really the issue. The issue was did this group break the law. It's my understanding that the children were removed because there was evidence of minor girls being married. But evidently it is legal in TX for minor girls to marry with parental consent.

I also wonder would we even be hearing about this group if they did not practice polygamy. There are other fundamental religious groups in America that we hear very little about. Certainly some of them also participate in practices that main stream America would take issue with. Why is no one investigating them?

I don't want to defend the FLDS. I certainly do not agree with what I know of them. That being said they are all being condemned by America and I have a hard time to believe that they are ALL as corrupt as they are being portrayed.

Since the first news report I think about these mothers and children almost daily. One day they are living the best life that they know how and the next they are separated from eachother. I cannot imagine a day in which I was forcibly kept from my children.

Polygamy is a crime in all states, as far as I know, so I believe Texas is within its rights to enforce its laws to target this particular sect. Incest is also a crime, and I have read reports that incest within this sect is also an issue.
Only time, and much investigation will tell if the state was correct in its handling of this case. It's very easy to criticize the government, and I have plenty of problems with Texas-style justice (their death penalty record, for starters), so I am not one to be quick to defend the state of Texas. However, in light of so many recent stories of failings of state governments in respects to protecting its children from abuse, this case is all the more difficult to evaluate from where we sit. Take Florida, for example, where there have been multiple examples of child protections services' woefully inadequate measures that have resulted in lost and dead children over and over again. This is a never-ending moral and legal struggle of where to draw the line between protecting children but also repsecting a parent's right to raise his or her child as they see fit.
Even with parental consent, if girls are being coerced into child marriages and sexual relationships in the name of religion, that is a big problem. And again, while I am not jumping to defend the goverment - I think we have a long way to go before we know if these steps were the right steps to take - the mere probability that these women were living the "best life they know how" does not ensure that they weren't endangering their children on a daily basis.
As wrenching as the whole process is for the public to read about and watch, and as unimaginably painful as it must be for the mothers and children involved, I still believe we have to reserve judgment until all the facts are known and shared with the public.

I did not intend to enter into a debate regarding the merits of this issue. I only wanted to express the distress I have been feeling regarding the situation of these families. Perhaps it is because I am just a Mommy. Not a LawMommy.

Ouch. I apologize if I offended you somehow. Spirited debate is in my nature.